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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:33 am 
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If you choose to call SUBSISTO, are you penalized for tasks not completed? Must all tasks be completed/attempted to call SUBSISTO?

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Anthony Barrera
CHS Robotics


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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:04 am 
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abarrera wrote:
If you choose to call SUBSISTO, are you penalized for tasks not completed? Must all tasks be completed/attempted to call SUBSISTO?


You may call SUBSISTO at any time. Once you do so, all activity stops and the field will be evaluated as-is (it's as if your team and robot are "frozen" for the remaining duration of the match). If you call SUBSISTO within the first 60 seconds, it stops the match and you get a bonus - if you call SUBSISTO after the first 60 seconds, it merely stops the match for your team (without the bonus). While there is no direct penalty for calling SUBSISTO prior to accomplishing all tasks, you will be evaluated via normal scoring for tasks not completed (see the FIELD PENALTIES section 4.3.8). Therefore, as the rules stipulate, you must evaluate the pros and cons of calling SUBSISTO - there can be a significant opportunity loss for using this feature (depending on how long it takes you to complete the other mission tasks).

-Danny


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:59 am 
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What if the team captain calls subsisto right away when the robot is pressed to run? Does the team get pts deducted? As I understand it the robot should be stopped at that point, does that mean that the score should be 400 to start of with and 25 for the BOM is the score 425 or does the team get points deducted?

At a past event the team captain called subsisto right away but the judge waited till the robot was close to him\her in order to turn it off. The robot had done some tasks correctly prior to being turned off. Should the team be penalized?


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:40 am 
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dperez23 wrote:
What if the team captain calls subsisto right away when the robot is pressed to run? Does the team get pts deducted? As I understand it the robot should be stopped at that point, does that mean that the score should be 400 to start of with and 25 for the BOM is the score 425 or does the team get points deducted?


I have to answer this the exact same way I answered it before (only my snarkiness level is now elevated). The field is evaluated for the score sheet at the instant that the team captain calls out "SUBSISTO" - please refer to the score sheets, they're posted on the TCEA website alongside the rules. You are correct that teams start out with 400 points, but EVERY task must be evaluated, even 4.3.8. Task 4.3.8 gives penalties for NOT completing tasks - teams who decide not to play the game should never get more points than a team who actually attempts to play the game, but unfortunately it's impossible to accurately reflect intent in the rules.

On page 34 of the rules there's a scoring example that is almost exactly the situation you detail. In the scoring example, the robot performs NO tasks on the field and the team captain calls SUBSISTO within the first minute of the match (the only difference is in the scoring example the robot is recovered once, which gives a 10 point deduction for touch penalties). You can see that in the starting configuration, an Intermediate team will have 80 points deducted for "4.3.8 Field Penalties" whereas an advanced team will have 240 points deducted for "4.3.8 Field Penalties."

I'm not saying this was your intent, but in my humble but accurate opinion teams who come to the competition without the intent to play the game should never be allowed to do anything but spectate.

-Danny


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:55 am 
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dperez23 wrote:
At a past event the team captain called subsisto right away but the judge waited till the robot was close to him\her in order to turn it off. The robot had done some tasks correctly prior to being turned off. Should the team be penalized?


If the team captain calls SUBSISTO, the team captain should turn off the robot. The second sentence in section 4.3.7 specifies this. However, if the team captain does not turn off the robot, the referee reserves the right to not accept the SUBSISTO (since the task is not complete) or turn off the robot whenever the referee pleases. If the referee decides to accept the SUBSISTO, any robot or human action taken after calling SUBSISTO must be disregarded.

-Danny


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Danny thanks for you response. Here is what took place :

Team captain runs robot, says subsisto right away

The robot continues to put two black depleted cells into the recycle area, had put one red energy on the bullseye(+), and was going for its the second red energy cell to put to the middle bullseye(+). The robot was stopped by the judge while the robot was going for the second red energy cell.

According the rules my team captain should have stop the robot not the judge and if the team captain did not stop the robot within the 1 minute mark then the team does not get the 25pts. The robot should have been allowed to finish its run and not be stopped by the judge. The judge should have let the robot completed its run and not given the 25pts for subsisto. Instead he stopped the robot and deducted points.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Rule 4.3.7 stats that when "your team captiain calls out "SUBSISTO"...for your robot - and turns your robot OFF - with more than 60 seconds remaining in hte match you will be awarded extra points."

My interpretation of that rule is that calling "SUBSISTO" was supposed to stop the robot. Any action taken by the captain by physically touching the robot would conflict with rule 5.0.5 and should count as a touch penalty. Because even though a robot cannot score more points after calling SUBSISTO it says nothing that a robot cannot still be penalized.

Anyway just my thoughts and interpretation.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:36 pm 
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dperez23 wrote:
Danny thanks for you response. Here is what took place :

Team captain runs robot, says subsisto right away


At this point I, as a referee, would stop the robot and tell the team "thanks for playing." They said, "SUBSISTO" - that means "STOP". In the rules, it means they want to stop the match. The robot should NOT be allowed to continue.

If the team captain wants to play, don't tell the referee to stop the match until you actually want to stop the match. It's just that simple.

dperez23 wrote:
According the rules my team captain should have stop the robot not the judge and if the team captain did not stop the robot within the 1 minute mark then the team does not get the 25pts. The robot should have been allowed to finish its run and not be stopped by the judge. The judge should have let the robot completed its run and not given the 25pts for subsisto. Instead he stopped the robot and deducted points.


No, the referee was correct. Your student said, "SUBSISTO" - telling the referee that they wanted to stop the match. Don't say SUBSISTO until you're ready to stop the match.

-Danny


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:39 pm 
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slivingston wrote:
Rule 4.3.7 stats that when "your team captiain calls out "SUBSISTO"...for your robot - and turns your robot OFF - with more than 60 seconds remaining in hte match you will be awarded extra points."

My interpretation of that rule is that calling "SUBSISTO" was supposed to stop the robot. Any action taken by the captain by physically touching the robot would conflict with rule 5.0.5 and should count as a touch penalty. Because even though a robot cannot score more points after calling SUBSISTO it says nothing that a robot cannot still be penalized.


Interesting interpretation. The act of turning off the robot is so that the robot does not undo something that it has done, and is NOT subject to a touch penalty. By saying, "SUBSISTO" you're telling the referee that the match is over - you are asked to stop your robot when the match is over. Hence, no penalty.

-Danny


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:49 pm 
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So, what would be the total score? The captain calls subsisto as he runs the robot. He has a minute to stop it to gain the pts. The judge lets the robot run until it gets closer to him/her and the judge stops it. The robot has done some tasks correctly what should the score be? Or are pts to be deducted?


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