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 Post subject: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:58 am 
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Posts: 63
Intermediate teams are allowed to:
1. Bring pairs of atoms to the start zone (by robot) and separate them (by hand)
2. Load single atom(s) on robot and run program
3. As long as there are no more than 5 pairs of atoms

Robots can not be in contact with any of the materials prior to handling them. The remainder of the atoms which are no longer needed must be handed to the referee.

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Anthony Barrera
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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:37 am 
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abarrera wrote:
Intermediate teams are allowed to:
1. Bring pairs of atoms to the start zone (by robot) and separate them (by hand)
2. Load single atom(s) on robot and run program
3. As long as there are no more than 5 pairs of atoms

Robots can not be in contact with any of the materials prior to handling them. The remainder of the atoms which are no longer needed must be handed to the referee.


I assume there's a question somewhere in there, but the vast majority of these statements are not all correct. I will tackle these statements individually:

Intermediate teams are allowed to:

1. Robot may bring pairs of atoms (and Catalysts) to the Start Zone and the team may separate atoms (by hand) within the Start Zone - as long as there are no more than 5 total game pieces (each atom in the pair counts as a game piece). So, you could bring {2 oxygen, 2 hydrogen, and a catalyst}, or {3 oxygen, 2 hydrogen}, or {4 hydrogen, 1 oxygen}, or {2 oxygen}, etc. and manipulate them. However, if you brought 3 pairs of atoms, that would be 6 total atoms, you would NOT be allowed to manipulate them by hand.

2. You MAY NOT load items onto the robot by hand once you manipulate the items. This is the "gotcha" regarding manipulating items manually. Your robot must AUTONOMOUSLY bring the items to the Robot Start Zone, AUTONOMOUSLY back off, wait for you to manipulate the items manually, and must then AUTONOMOUSLY retrieve the manipulated items from the Robot Start Zone and deliver them to an appropriate area on the field. If you touch the robot, or drop items onto the robot (basically, if you have any interaction with the robot), your robot is considered as "recovered" and you must remove all items from the Robot Start Zone (any items "dropped" onto the robot will also be removed from play as an illegal action), take a penalty, and must restart your robot in the Robot Start Zone (hence you lose everything you did). I mean, come on, if I allowed you to load items on the robot after manipulating them what fun would there be in that?!

3. The remainder of the items not needed may remain in the Robot Start Zone or may be given to the referee to be taken out of play. Unless the robot is recovered, and thus the Robot Start Zone must be cleared (remember, only intermediate teams can clear the Robot Start Zone themselves, otherwise you must take a penalty to get the Robot Start Zone cleared by the referee), items may remain in the Robot Start Zone - this allows you to stage multiple "trips" to build molecules. For example, if you bring 2 Hydrogen and 2 Oxygen and 1 Catalyst, you can arrange items to create 1 Hydroxide, and still have enough materials left over so that if you bring 1 more catalyst to the Robot Start Zone in a subsequent "visit" you can "build" another Hydroxide by hand for the robot to grab and place.

I hope this clears things up.

-Danny


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Posts: 63
yes it does! especially #2! thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Can you clarify the difference between 5.0.6 and 5.0.7? The intermediate students can not have the robot come back to the Start Zone, change programs and rearrange the checkers, etc? But the students can have the robot come back to the Start Zone without checkers and as long as it in the Start Zone; they can change programs and turn the bot around with out pentalty? Thank you so much for clarifing.


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:54 pm 
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tamidh wrote:
... But the students can have the robot come back to the Start Zone without checkers and as long as it in the Start Zone; they can change programs and turn the bot around with out pentalty?

No, I believe the confusion here is that you are unfortunately still thinking in terms of the rules LAST YEAR, and not necessarily picking up on the differing rule changes for THIS YEAR. I don't want to confuse the issue by talking about last year's rules, so I will try to succinctly describe the three "befuddling" scenarios you are contending with. I'll use color to highlight the different areas of the playing field that these scenarios interact with: Safety Zone, Robot Start Zone, and Molecule Reactor Zone.

  1. Recovery of Robot With a Penalty - Robots initially start out in the Robot Start Zone, and then are allowed to begin motion at the beginning of the match. Robots perform their assigned tasks, until the robot operators (team members) decide that the robot must be recovered; this may be because the robot gets stuck, ceases to perform its task, the robot is running the wrong program, or other. In order to recover the robot, the team must:
    1. Touch their robot. Any physical contact with the robot while the robot is considered "active" will indicate to the referee that the robot is being recovered. The robot may be recovered from any location on the competition field (with the exception in the following "Note" segment).
      • Note: Advanced teams (or any teams at State Competition) may not touch their robot in the last 60 seconds of the match if the robot is partially or completely within the Molecule Reactor Zone. Yes, this means that Advanced teams (or any team at State Competition) cannot recover their robot - even with a penalty - during the last 60 seconds of the game if the robot is partially or completely within the Molecule Reactor Zone.
    2. Clear out the Robot Start Zone of any game elements (atoms, catalyst) that may be partially or completely within the Robot Start Zone. This may be done by the team or the referee, and the team must give the game elements to the referee to be removed from play. This may be done by teams of both difficulties (intermediate / advanced), but ONLY when recovering the robot with a penalty.
    3. Bring the robot to the Robot Start Zone. The robot, from this point, is considered DISABLED.
    4. Teams may now perform tasks compliant with Rule 5.0.6.
  2. Recovery of Robot Without a Penalty - Robots initially start out in the Robot Start Zone, and then are allowed to begin motion at the beginning of the match. Robots then perform their assigned tasks. If the robot moves over to the Safety Zone, and is considered "IN" the Safety Zone (as per 5.0.10), the robot may be recovered without a penalty (remember, to be "IN" the Safety Zone the robot must have a drive wheel touching the mat in the area, and also be touching one of the walls closest to the Safety Zone). The only valid location the robot can be, in order to be considered for a non-penalty recovery, is "IN" the Safety Zone. Once the robot is considered "IN" the Safety Zone, and the team wants to recover the robot without penalty and bring it back to the the Robot Start Zone, the team must:
    1. Touch their robot. Any physical contact with the robot while the robot is IN the Safety Zone indicates to the referee that the robot is being recovered without a penalty.
      • Note: Teams may perform this non-penalty recovery during any point during the game, so long as the robot is "IN" the Safety Zone.
    2. If there are any game elements (atoms, catalyst) in the Robot Start Zone, they must be removed. Only Intermediate teams may remove game elements from the Robot Start Zone when performing a non-penalty recovery, and any game elements removed must be given to the Referee. Advanced teams will need to take a penalty (remember, only up to 5 penalties allowed) in order to remove items from the Robot Start Zone if there are any game pieces partially or completely within the Robot Start Zone.
    3. Bring the robot to the Robot Start Zone. The robot, from this point, is considered DISABLED.
    4. Teams may now perform tasks compliant with Rule 5.0.6.
  3. Manipulate Game Pieces (by hand) that are brought to the Robot Start Zone – Intermediate robots may bring up to (and not more than) 5 game pieces to the Robot Start Zone, and once the robot is no longer in contact with those game pieces the team members may manipulate/rearrange those game pieces by hand (as per 5.0.7). If the robot is touched while there are items within the Robot Start Zone, those items will be lost as part of the robot recovery process. Therefore the robot must autonomously bring the items to the Robot Start Zone, autonomously move away from the items (so that the robot is not touching them), autonomously come back to the Robot Start Zone and collect the items, and then move those items into a scoring position.

I hope this clarifies these three scenarios. This year there is no allowance for robots that return back to the Robot Start Zone – instead, in order to have robots be recovered without penalty, robots must go to the Safety Zone and comply with rule 5.0.10.
-Danny


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:35 am 
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Intermediate Play:
Must the robot be idle when handling the materials which are brought autonomously by the robot to the start zone? Essentially can the robot bring items to the start zone AND back up to complete a different task ie: move a catalyst or another set of atoms; at the same time which the materials in the start zone are being handled?

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Anthony Barrera
CHS Robotics


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:47 am 
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abarrera wrote:
Intermediate Play:
Must the robot be idle when handling the materials which are brought autonomously by the robot to the start zone? Essentially can the robot bring items to the start zone AND back up to complete a different task ie: move a catalyst or another set of atoms; at the same time which the materials in the start zone are being handled?

There is no requirement on what the robot is doing while you're manipulating items within the Robot Start Zone (except the robot may not touch you or items you're manipulating, which would begin the process of robot recovery and you'd then lose materials in the Robot Start Zone). The robot may, indeed, be gathering additional materials, moving items around on the field, dancing the Macarena, or anything it wants provided no rules are broken in the process.

-Danny


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:54 am 
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thanks again for clarifying!

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Anthony Barrera
CHS Robotics


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:21 pm 
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OK... Please help:

Now if the robot is parked (wheels in) in the START ZONE with pieces in the START ZONE and the pieces not touching the robot... you still can not manipulate the robot at all even if the tires are in the START ZONE...????

HOWEVER, if the robot travels to the SAFETY ZONE then the robot can be delivered back to the START ZONE and reprogrammed and or restarted/re-positioned????

Am i correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Rule 5.0.7
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:40 pm 
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dburns wrote:
Now if the robot is parked (wheels in) in the START ZONE with pieces in the START ZONE and the pieces not touching the robot... you still can not manipulate the robot at all even if the tires are in the START ZONE...????


This is the big difference between last year and this year regarding robot restarts. Robots are not allowed to return to the Robot Start Zone in order to be restarted without a penalty. If robots return to the Robot Start Zone, that's nice, but there's no resulting benefit of doing so. If a robot is touched anywhere on the board (except in a configuration specified by rule 5.0.10) the team will incur a PENALTY, anything within the Robot Start Zone must be removed and given to the referee, and the robot must return to the Robot Start Zone to be restarted.

dburns wrote:
HOWEVER, if the robot travels to the SAFETY ZONE then the robot can be delivered back to the START ZONE and reprogrammed and or restarted/re-positioned????


This is correct, assuming there is nothing within the Robot Start Zone prior to it being brought back. If there are any items in the Robot Start Zone:

  1. If there are 5 or fewer items in the Robot Start Zone, Intermediate teams may remove them and give them to the referee to be taken out of play.
  2. If there are 6 or more items in the Robot Start Zone, Intermediate teams must take a penalty to remove the items from the Robot Start Zone.
  3. Advanced teams are required to take a penalty to remove the items from the Robot Start Zone.

Once all the items in the Robot Start Zone have been removed, the robot may be brought back to the Robot Start Zone to be repositioned and restarted.

-Danny


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